uniwolfwerecorn: Just butting in to inform you that the USA don’t have a federal “age of consent” law, and in many states, Derek’s and Stiles’ hypothetical relationship wouldn’t be illegal.
The same is true for many countries all over the world.
In many states it wouldn’t be illegal, sure, but in the state of California it would be. Stiles’ dad, who is a cop, would have a lot of reasons to be against Sterek, which is one of the many reasons I don’t believe age of consent should be ignored within fic or fanon.
In the state of California, Scott/Allison is illegal as well, as are Ethan/Danny, Aiden/Lydia, Lydia/Jackson, Allison/Isaac - all of them canon pairings. SInce you’re saying that “age of consent” shouldn’t be ignored, how about you go harassing some other shippers as well?
Also, just F.Y.I., asked at a con, Linden Ashby said the sheriff wouldn’t be against Derek and Stiles dating.
Also, in regards to your point: “Federal law makes it criminal to engage in a sexual act with another person who is between the age of 12 and 16 if they are at least four years younger than you.”
Sources, please? Can’t find that anywhere.
Pretty sure Sterek fits that “if they are at least four years younger than you” standard.
Re: This is your opinion, which of course you are entitled to. It is not, however, objective truth. You personal experiences are not sufficient to make such a general statement about the issue.
… So are you saying you agree with pedophilia? Would you be saying the same if Derek was a fat ugly man?
Oh, honey, go and look up the definition of pedophila, and don’t come up with cheap strawman arguments.
"parents were careful in choosing who their children married" - is that meant to justify that parents who choose their children’s spouse factually override their children’s agency and bodily autonomy? Do you approve of arranged marriages rather than allowing teenagers to choose their partners freely?
No, not at all. I don’t agree with arranged marriages (though I find the resulting relationships and situations interesting to read about in fiction). I don’t even believe in restricting teenagers from dating. I just think teenagers should be dating people closer to their age because that way, at least their inexperience around dating and relationships isn’t being taken advantage of.
I find that a very peculiar notion. Why wouldn’t people close to you in age be able to take advantage of your inexperience? That makes very little sense. I believe you didn’t quite think this through.
And a personal question at last: would you also call it a fetish if someone was shipping Allison and Scott, or Aiden and Lydia, i.e. het?
As long as you aren’t erasing or justifying abuse and/or villianizing other characters for the sake of your ship, I do not think it’s fetishing. As long as you aren’t justifying otherwise untoward behavior, I don’t consider shipping them (or even Sterek) fetishing. But if you are damaging other characters for the sake of your ship, if you are twisting morals to justify your ship then yes, it is a fetish.
Wow… that is a very curious definition of fetishizing. You should maybe come up with a more… let’s say, objective one. Also, you didn’t answer my question. And when did other chacters even come into this debate?
tonneraouanont: or do you consider it “fetish shipping” if the people shipping, are in fact, gay men?
It’s a fetish no matter what sexuality you are? I’m lesbian. Does the fact that I ship Allison and Lydia make them fodder for fetishing? Yes, yes it does. Especially when you take into the fact that Allison and Lydia are not canonically gay. Like Sterek. The difference is I don’t go around demanding other people “calm the fuck down” about the love the characters of said ship are getting in the show. Also, Allison and Lydia aren’t a means of promoting and/or excusing statutory rape. There is a big difference between two teenagers experimenting together than an adult man (or woman!) taking advantage of a teenager.
Oh, yes, they are. See above: Lydia and Allison would also be committing statutory rape in the state of California.
Honey, I get the impression you are woefully unprepared to have this discussion. Better drop out before it gets worse.
I gotta agree with Uniwolfwerecorn. I’m not even going to engage this person in this argument. It’s obvious that she’s got a damaged perspective due to problems in her past that she’s spoken of and thus isn’t in a place where she can view this subject objectively.
Also her views on fetishization and canon gay/bi/queer-ness are downright repulsive and if I responded, I’d probably lapse into incoherent rage rants.
Pretty much, she’s wrong on all of it, factually and otherwise, and that’s all I’ll say about that. I’m too busy this weekend to deal with this shit again. (god save me from this debate and keep me away from it and resist the temptation to wade into it anyway)
also worrying she can’t seem to tell the difference between fetishing and fetishizing
You guys are assholes. You’re like rabid dogs. No sense of respect, no sense of boundaries. You’re the same assholes invading tags and acting like what you believe is the right thing to believe.
You continue to reply to a woman you deem to be ‘damaged’ and not fit for this mockery of a debate. It’s not a debate. It’s you regurgitating the same shit you’ve been saying and ignoring what other people try to argue.
It’s a stupid ship. Don’t insult people over it. An adult fucking a sixteen year old is a little fucked up. Not the worst thing, but it’s fucked up. Most women do fetishize gay me, specifically white men. It’s a fact. Let’s not pretend it’s not. I know colethewolf’s a gay man. I’m not saying he fetishizes it specifically, but most sterek fans do. There’s nothing damaged about it. We all fetishize something. It’s not right, but it happens.
Just like most sterek fans romanticize domestic and physical abuse and excuse Derek for his actions. It happens. People make typos and grammatical errors when they’re angry. Only assholes incapable of taking the higher ground would use that as an arguing point. You don’t know if English is her first language. You don’t know what the fuck she’s been through, stop talking over people.
And in conclusion. It’s a stupid show. Even Jeff Davis doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing. But if you need to tear someone apart on tumblr and condescend them to get yourselves through the day, you do that; it just means you guys are assholes. You’re the people the teen wolf fandom problems tag was created to bitch about.
first of all, she didn’t do it once, she did it consistently
do you know what fetishing is - it’s making a voodoo doll, literally, it is the act of making a fetish or poppet
and the fact is you don’t know shit about what you’re talking about.
First of all these topics are huge and complicated. You say all women fetishise gay men. No, what happens is that het porn is so directly designed for men that women are used as objects, they are literally holes to fuck. Ever notice in het porn they don’t even show the men’s faces, just women being degraded. The difference is that in gay porn they actually look like they’re enjoying themselves and not being tortured. Both people (or multiples whatever) are subjects to the camera they are given consideration and desire. Do you realise how awful that is that to watch any kind of porn that does not show the sexual degradation of a woman we have to go back to either Victorian stuff (most of which is really weird) or gay porn. That’s it, those are our choices.
So why the hell wouldn’t we write stories about those gay men having romances, it’s no different from barbara cartland writing the same novel 700 times with different character names, we give them the stories in most cases we want them to have. We get them sexual agency because if they’re both men then they are both equal.
Most fans don’t know how to write women because in every genre women are degraded and fetishised and dehumanised. Yeah, even in the Hunger Games Katniss was reduced to being a girl. In order to survive she had to have a relationship, and babies, and she was sent out in a wedding dress. They used her sexuality to control her as they turned her into the symbol they wanted. So yeah, strong female lead, might as well be an action figure - but that’s the best we get.
And the idea of romanticising physical and mental abuse - that’s not new either. Ever hear of the Byronic hero, who was mad, bad and dangerous to know but just needed tamed by the right woman. Like Heathcliff, oh he’s so dreamy you say as he’s strangling puppies and raping Isabella.
And what you have consistently missed about the aspect is not one of us have ever said Derek’s violence was acceptable, what we have said, consistently, is that it’s not abuse. It’s violence. That isn’t romanticising it, this isn’t hand-waving over how it’s okay how Edward breaks into her bedroom to watch her sleep, or how it’s okay that Jacob kissed her because he loved her. This is, very simply, this is not okay, but Derek didn’t get anything out of it.
In fact I judge it by a simple benchmark - Isaac. Isaac was terrified of his father and his father’s persistent abuse - Isaac is in no way scared of Derek. Even when Derek threw the glass, abusing what appeared to be one of Isaac’s triggers (and deliberately to “white fang” him) Isaac wasn’t scared of him.
Do I agree with the action - hell no, do I think it was abuse - no.
Do I think what Kate did was abuse - yes, do I think what jennifer did was abuse - yes.
Now here’s the last point, at what point did we insult her. I pointed out that perhaps she was on about something else because of a persistent and continuous syllogism (not a typo, a typo is what happens when you spell a word wrong, when you consistently use the wrong word it’s a syllogism). The other point people made was that the legal definition of age of consent varies and what freaks one person out is perfectly normal for another so tolerance is necessary not polemic bullshit like you trotted out in her defence, and the generalisation that everyone involved in Sterek is willfully blind to legal issues because it concerns their ship - when in fact the same legal ramifications are not to be considered in their own - only to Sterek.
Don’t like Sterek - who cares?
However if you’re going to step in on a conversation like this, for which you clearly have no knowledge or understanding for the sole purpose of continuing generalisations you will be corrected in your knowledge base.
Every person is unique with unique and different tastes and ideas. That’s as simple as it gets. Generalisations make you an asshole. So attacking Sterek fans en masse will get you responses like this. Because it’s not the ship that’s the issue, it’s the double standard, the bigotry (and yes, that is the right word) and the teenage clique behaviour that is at issue here.
You jumped in because you saw your friend losing a debate because she was unprepared for it. The thing is we’ve had this debate with her and others many times before, so we know our stuff. And every time we come out of it with more followers from doing it, because we know our stuff.
And maybe now, as I’ve answered you, you know about some of it too.
And, as a Sterek fan (but not a stan, there are other ships I much prefer) I can honestly say I have not sat making fetishes of gay characters.
Okay I realize you took a lot of time to say all that shit. Some of it was wrong (I’ve never even seen a het porn where the men’s faces weren’t shown?) and some was right - twilight does suck. I assume that was the point.
But I’m not in the debate. I couldn’t give a single shit about the debate. You wanna debate the same shit Over and over again, you do that. I wanted to address the behavior of this tag invading troll fest who like to attack people and then play the ‘why can’t we just blog in peace’ victim. That was a shot at colethewolf, I admit it. I can’t stand him.
You called her perspective damaged dude. You used that goddamn word. That’s an insult. She said her piece, ya’ll condescended it. That’s not a debate. Nobody’s providing new evidence or acknowledging presented evidence. I ain’t got the patience for that shit. The fact is, she posted her point in a tag designated for those kinds of points. That tag was invaded. They started an argument. So I think the message you assholes can take from this is - show some fucking respect and stay in your own tags. Seriously. Y’all invade every fucking tag and then play the victim. You’re just carrying out a debate and you know your stuff. Shame you don’t know your tag.